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the problem with closed-loop is that you always have a system to discharge to sewer in case of emergency. And guess what? It's cheaper to do it regularly to save on electricity. So it's becoming a regular practice to build closed-loop systems to bypass opposition and have a de-facto open-loop. Never trust tech oligarchs.


the union is free to strike if they don't sign. It's about what's less expensive for the company and who has the more leverage. If the union is well-organized, they have disproportionate power over the management and the management concedes everything.


if your union is not democratic, it's not really a union. It's a business scam exploiting union rights. There's a difference between yellow unions (pro-business) and red unions (pro-workers). Just because something is called a union it doesn't mean it's one.


not sure if AI psychosis or a simple scab


if you joined a non-democratic union to begin with, that's on you. This is a rare anomaly though and most unions have democratic processes you can engage with and bring the change


It is a democratic union. There are 100 workers and 55 are the leadership's cronies who keep voting them back in. Classic democracy, two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Also, how do you get to pick which union to be in? One can get certified even if you voted against it, or already exist at the company where you want to work.


they are still in talks for recognition


what does recognition even mean?

shouldn't main way of demanding recognition by a union just be a strike?


There's a union of wikipedia editors being formed and they are in alliance with the US and UK Wikimedia union. More public statements will follow in the next weeks about this.


What are the legal protections for collectively bargaining as non-employees with a corporation, if any?

It seems like there wouldn't be (and shouldn't be) any.


Different legal systems have options for groups organizing to do a join litigation e.g. England and Wales have Group Litigation Orders.

I'm not a lawyer and not in England or Wales! ;-)


Oh boy here we go


Very exciting good luck to them all


Guess how those labor laws were achieved. Spoiler: unions. Same as weekends, 40-hour work week and so on. Strong unions win laws.


I don't dispute that unions were important and offer some sort of benefit. What I don't like is that most of the big unions in Europe receive a lot of governmental money and become lobbying groups for political parties. I would not consider them independent in any sense of the word.


As a union member - my union can fuck off. Dirty back-door deals, scratchy-back 'allowances', management collusion...

But, we went on strike, got a pay rise, my disciplinaries were found to be baseless, I got a pay rise they hid from us.

Swings and roundabouts, but I have got two people fired -it takes time, and it's done correctly. Or the law gets involved.

I'll take a shitty union over not.


But that's exactly what a union is: a lobbying group that strives for a better outcome on behalf of its members. "Independence" is not part of their job description. Why wouldn't they talk to politicians, or even publicly support the political parties that are more aligned with their goals? Or do you believe that is a privilege to be reserved only for the rich?


Sure be a lobbying group but without public funding. If your members can't be bothered to pay the cost of the union it can cease to exist.


In other words, yes you do believe that having direct access to politicians is a privilege to be reserved only for the rich.


No I believe that you should not be paid my tax money to run your politically motivated union. The members of the union should.


Ah, but that's not your tax money you see; your tax money is being spent on other things you don't like such as teacher salaries. It's other people's tax money that's being used to maintain unions.


You make a lot of assumptions about other people don’t you and what they believe. You should learn to see the world as a spectrum of grays instead of black and white. Two things can be true at the same time.


Tech Oligarchs are burning the world. If you feel your job is useless or harmful to other humans, it's time to become an organizer.

Join Tech Workers Coalition and discover how to go from being a passive slave to your CEO to an active force for change.


Go on Zulip or Anytype


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