> russia ? lol, they can't even manage Ukraine ( with our aid )

And that's why they want to attack Europe. They hope that it will either cause eu to stop supporting Ukraine or at least that it will give them good negotiation position (e.g. we'll stop attacking baltic countries but Ukraine has to let go of their territory).

if they end up attacking Nato, I think we would just go until boots are in Moscow. our tech is better and we have more men ( we dont need North Koreans to fight)

If our boots get anywhere near Moscow we get nuked.

That's the issue, a belligerent neighbor that permanently sabotages you but which you can't ever get too close to losing.

More like America going to war with NATO at this point

The US lacks the political will for a war with NATO, I'm speaking of the soldiers and citizens. The worst case for NATO is US withdrawal and explicit or tacit support of NATO enemies. Some soldiers would blindly follow orders to march on Europe, but we can't even win a war against Iran right now so I'm not sure how much Europe has to worry about a US invasion. Canada, maybe, but that's probably even more unpopular in the US than invading Europe.

And it'd also be the end, economically, for the US. We'd be hosed, that isn't to say current leadership wouldn't try and end up fucking us all over, but the effect would be another loss for the US.

I'm happy you have that confidence, I think it would only take 1 generation of conditioning to get us to centralized autocratic rule. It won't be trump in power, it'll be Vance or someone else less popular but smarter.

Probes are not worth going to war for. Russian boots on Baltic grounds would be.

Some years back when a Russian jet breached Turkish airspace just for a few seconds, it was shot down.

Now it's nothing but strongly worded thoughts and prayers

Were any of these 'probes' actual territorial threats? Cause if not what you're calling a paper tiger is just a cool head.

An actual confrontation would probably go like the battle of Khasham.

At the time when the jet violated Turkish airspace it wasn't a territorial threat either. Strangely enough no jet has violated Turkish airspace since (but a few drones have landed in Turkey during the war in Ukraine).

Meanwhile Russian drones, cruise missiles (!) and planes violate NATO airspace almost daily it seems. And are being launched from within NATO arispace quite frequently (see Germany).

And no, the drones are not the "Amazon delivery drones".

E.g on September 8 Geran-4 flew 120 km unopposed through Romanian airspace, took a leisurly turn above a small town with population of ~20k people, and then flew back, eventually crashing in Moldova.

No big deal.

Turkey is in NATO. And had no issues downing a military Russian jet that entered its airspace for a few seconds.

Meanwhile Russian military jets violate NATO airspace in the Baltics. Russian Geran drones leisurely cruise in NATO airspace.

And nothing happens. Not even when a drone strikes a residential building.

Oh, I guess "it's just Romania who cares". It's also in NATO.

The US is in NATO. Iran isn't being bombed by NATO.